Halo 19 - With Teeth (Part 2)

[00:00:43] Speaker A: Step right up. It's nailed a halo by halo journey through the music of nine inch nails I'm Blake. I'm Jess Sica and this is with Teeth part two. Disc a side two if you're following along on your vinyl. If my voice sounds deeper and sexier this time, I'm still getting over that cold. [00:01:06] Speaker B: You really like to drag these sicknesses out? [00:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry that I chose to drag the sickness out and that it's a long recovery. Like everyone who's ever had a cold in the history of the world, it takes like two weeks or more to get the phlegm out of your system. What? [00:01:23] Speaker B: Nothing. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Good grief. But yeah, we got three more songs for you. One of them is a single. [00:01:31] Speaker B: So really we have like 2.5. [00:01:34] Speaker A: We're going to dive deeper into two of them with clips and everything and then Every Day Is Exactly the Same gets its own Halo episode down the line. Do you want to dive into some nine inch news? [00:01:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:50] Speaker C: So everything is in the news today. [00:01:54] Speaker A: We only have one little news item. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Sorry, what? My nose got all itchy. Suddenly someone must be thinking about me. [00:02:04] Speaker A: Is that what that means? [00:02:05] Speaker B: I don't know what? I can't remember if it's like if your nose itches or if your ear itches. [00:02:10] Speaker A: If your ears burn. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Ears burn. [00:02:13] Speaker A: Then someone's talking about you. [00:02:15] Speaker B: I don't know. Anyway, the news, all that I really have is that it's the 24th birthday of the Fragile. Fragile, which makes me feel so unbelievably old. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the 24 ish years of almost 24 years of me being into this band. That's what that means. [00:02:39] Speaker B: And then I was thinking next year will be the 30th anniversary of the downward spiral. [00:02:44] Speaker A: Holy my God. [00:02:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:47] Speaker A: That's insane. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't want to think about it anymore, but yeah. Happy birthday to the fragile Happy birthday. The older you get, the better you get. Sound. [00:03:00] Speaker A: The older you get, the paler you get. Isn't that a lyric from Love is Not Enough? [00:03:07] Speaker B: Exactly. That's an exact lyric. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Okay, I thought I was right, but yes, you get better every year. The Fragile here's looking at you. [00:03:17] Speaker B: One of our listeners and patron, I think, posted an HBD and talked about how they were twelve years old when this album came out and they happily ran to the mall to get it. And I was thinking, twelve years old? You're so cool. Whenever I was twelve I was listening to like Ace of Bass. Yeah, same salt and peppa. [00:03:40] Speaker A: The coolest thing I liked was probably TL. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Jackson, actually. Janet Jackson rules. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Yeah, she's good. So does Ace of Bass, though. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Well, at least one album, their debut, if anyone's wondering. [00:03:54] Speaker A: It's kind of hard to talk about the Fragile because it spent a year of my life dissecting it and now I'm still in my recovery period, but one day I'll go back to it, I'm sure. [00:04:08] Speaker B: I went back to it recently oh. [00:04:10] Speaker A: How was it? [00:04:12] Speaker B: It's good. It's still great. [00:04:14] Speaker A: I need to do a side by side listen with Teeth to compare before. [00:04:18] Speaker B: We start, like a new era. I go back and I relisten to all the albums. [00:04:24] Speaker A: That's a good idea. Maybe I should be doing that instead. I'm just kind of listening to stuff. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Out of order anyway, that's all. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Anyway. Okay. [00:04:34] Speaker B: So today we're going to spend some time talking about drums. This should be your time to shine, Blake. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Drums? I can shine a little bit. I played the drums, so I know a little. Why? [00:04:51] Speaker B: Well, I just thought we'd talk about the live drums on this Nine Inch and Nails album. [00:04:56] Speaker A: Yeah. It's the live drummiest album they've ever done. Ever would do, by far. [00:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So when Reznor was writing the songs that would make up with Teeth, he had in the back of his mind an idea that a live drummer was going to play on these tracks. And so he wanted to actually record drums this time. So Atticus Ross and James Brown, I always write Lol after his name, they had to track live drums against the new material. And there were some challenges with that. One is because the songs were still demos, the drum tracks had to be recorded in a way that would yield the most flexibility when it came to mixing. I got all this from a magazine. I'd have no idea what I believe. [00:05:47] Speaker A: I'm looking at the same article. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Okay. And then they had to find a way to make the drum track sit correctly against the other against the other more rigidly programmed elements of each song without losing that human feeling. [00:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And I saw the part where I read the part where Atticus talks about that. Were you going to talk about that? [00:06:10] Speaker B: No, I was going to let you talk about it because I got kind of bored reading through it. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Oh, I was fascinated. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Well, I'm sure you were. It was like reading something in a different language. I had no idea what he was talking about. [00:06:19] Speaker A: Should I talk about it now? [00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, go for it. [00:06:22] Speaker A: Let me see what Atticus said. Atticus said to my ear, the drums on this record have maintained the performance aspect. It just depends how you want to approach it. Obviously, I'm not going to let a drum track go with 100 flams against a drum machine. Now, that is jargon, meaning how do. [00:06:42] Speaker B: You spell that word? [00:06:43] Speaker A: Flam. Flam. [00:06:45] Speaker B: I was just making sure. [00:06:46] Speaker A: That means they don't sync up. So the beat should just go like b boom. But instead you get boom boom, because the performer is not exactly in sync with the drum machine or whatever other sequenced electronic element is in there. And it's called a flam when you get a BA BA not right at the same time. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:11] Speaker A: And it gets that slightly off feeling that is not sometimes that's desirable, but when you have like the downbeat and this big kick or something. You don't want it off. This is why Purest Feeling sounds amateurish in some parts, because they're playing a live drummer against a lot of sequenced elements and there are a bunch of flams on that. Record this, a lot more care was taken. Obviously they can go in and Pro Tools a lot of stuff with teeth where they couldn't on the Purest Feeling sessions. But I'll continue with what Atticus was saying and he describes how they kind of fix certain things. One of the problems with Pro Tools is that people have started to make music with their eyes. That's interesting because I was taught never mix with your eyes, meaning mix based on what you see on the computer screen. But I do a lot. I'm so visual. I do a lot with my eyes. It's just how I am. And I line lots of things up visually. But I don't know, that's just me. But I know what he's saying. Your ears are supposed to be the most important thing. He says we're obviously not going to have flams or something that's going to make the song sound bad. But there's a good example on the line begins to blur and that's Grohl just really a live take of him. Now we've got some pretty heavy programmed drums in there as well. There's an element of tightening up certain kick drums or whatever. But what there isn't is a methodical 16th note edit. There is a way to use Beat Detective that is a function of Pro Tools where you can keep the swing of the drums. Beat Detective all depends on the trigger points you use. Now I just tend to use the two and four as the trigger points. Or maybe it's the downbeat kick and snare drum. You want those to be in time. But the swing of the drummer is what happens between those notes. I think that's really smart. Atticus knows what he's doing and has for a long time, clearly. But you want the kicks and the snares to hit right on time. But the little drummer expressions in between there hi, hat, hits, tom's, whatever else, I think that can be a little more free form. You don't have to. Beat Detective is a thing that detects every it detects every beat. Can you believe that? Every hit. And you can adjust them. You can make them more on time, move them back and forth. If you move things around too dramatically, you get computer artifacts and it sounds digital and weird and wrong. But give a light touch to it and it sounds good. I think the results they got were good for me. I can sort of tell it was messed with a little bit, but not in any way that has bad artifacts or that sounds bad. The end result mix of live drummer and programmed elements sounds good to me for most of this stuff. But yeah, that's what Atticus said about the drums in that article. This is from I think it's Remix magazine, by the way. [00:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I have some information from Mulder, too. According to Mulder, they only had three days to record the drums for the whole album. [00:10:33] Speaker A: I mean, it's not that many songs, but still, it seems kind of short. [00:10:38] Speaker B: It does seem kind of short. I'm wondering why they were so pressed for time. I guess just studio booking and scheduling since they had dave Reznor said that. [00:10:46] Speaker A: He self imposed a short timeframe for the entire record. [00:10:51] Speaker B: So Mulder said in that situation, you had to get a drum sound that was a good drum sound and versatile. In an ideal situation, you tailor the drum sound for each track a little bit, maybe move the room mics around or maybe change the snares a bit, tweak it for each song. But they didn't really have the luxury of time for that. So James Brown Lol, who recorded it, just got a good all around sound that kind of worked for every track. I would have certainly wanted to spend a bit more time, especially with the Ambience. [00:11:20] Speaker A: The Ambience probably meaning, like, the room mics. Mics that are far away and get reverb and stuff. If you're in the same room with the same setup, not changing it, you're going to get the same Ambience every time. Obviously, it's not going to vary that much from song to song. But what they probably did was set up lots of microphone options and just had tons of mics on the same drum kit in the same room. And for some tracks, you could use some mics. Other tracks use other mics, depending on the sound you want, how close or far you want it to sound, how much. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah, and he said once they got to mixing, it was actually very flexible. And it did work, probably because there's so many mics. Probably so. But let's talk about the actual drummers. Yes, Jerome Dillon. But there's a big name about to toss out here, and that's Dave Grohl. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Dave Grohl the most the drummer who's drummed for the most bands other than Josh. [00:12:22] Speaker B: I was reading through his book storyteller and I was kind of disappointed because there wasn't really much information about working on this album. [00:12:29] Speaker A: She was just skimming for this. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I bought the whole book just for that. I mean, I'll read it. There were some funny stories as I was kind of going through it about his young, his youthful days. And there's a funny little story I'll tell but it's told better in this issue with Hollywood Reporter, I think, than it was in the book. But yeah, there was nothing in the book, really about working on this album. But he did say, and I did. [00:12:55] Speaker A: Not know this because it was only three days true. He probably forgot it. Probably actually, he didn't. He remembers it very well, and I have a clip to that effect later. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah, but one of the things I learned is that he's the musician who's he has been on SNL more than any other musician other than GE Smith. Well, we're not going to count GE Smith in the Saturday Night Live band. [00:13:18] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So other than them yeah, I believe it. I can't name all the bands off the top of my head, but I could imagine I think he said, I. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Can'T remember how many times he's been on SNL. [00:13:30] Speaker A: Were nirvana on there. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Yes, they were on the same episode as Charles Barkley. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Oh, right, okay. No, that's a classic clip. Foo Fighters, obviously, he might have drummed with Queens of the Stone Age or something on there. [00:13:44] Speaker C: Maybe. [00:13:44] Speaker B: I don't know if they've been on SNL. Maybe they have. He guest drummed for some other musicians, like Tom Petty, maybe. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. He famously guests for everybody, even Joe Walsh for that tribute show. [00:13:58] Speaker B: Oh, okay. I was about to say benefit show. Yeah, that's right. [00:14:02] Speaker A: This is a good place to talk about how pissed I am that at that Joe Walsh benefit show Nine Inch Nails played, grohl stepped in to drum. He drummed for right. He wasn't or was he drumming for or maybe it was both for Black Keys. [00:14:19] Speaker B: I don't think he drummed for Black Keys. [00:14:21] Speaker A: My memory is clearly fading of the. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Show, but I don't remember, though. [00:14:25] Speaker A: It's all running together. [00:14:27] Speaker B: We'll just say he drummed for every band but Nine Inch Nails on that. [00:14:32] Speaker A: That is pretty much the case. He could have stepped out and reunited with Nine Inch Nails, but it didn't happen. He was right there. [00:14:39] Speaker C: Yeah, come on. [00:14:41] Speaker A: They could have done, I don't know, getting smaller or some shit. [00:14:46] Speaker B: It was kind of a big deal, though, that I mean, Grohl drummed on this album, but it was also just like live drumming in know? [00:14:53] Speaker A: I remember getting pretty excited that Dave Grohl a guy, a name I knew was going to be on. I mean, obviously I knew Foo Fighters, but I had recently heard the Queens of the Stone Age stuff that I really liked his drumming on. [00:15:08] Speaker B: That's a good album. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Okay. This is cool. Yeah, it's a great album. [00:15:11] Speaker B: But because it was Dave Grohl, it was brought up a lot in several different interviews that Reznor did around the promotion period with teeth. So I want to read some of these. Well, hold on. First I want to play a little clip. And this is Rezner being interviewed on that MTV interview. I like to go back to a. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Lot, a very useful interview that proved to be you also work with Dave. [00:15:43] Speaker D: Grohl on this record. [00:15:43] Speaker C: Tell me, were you friends before? When was the first time you guys met? [00:15:49] Speaker D: I met Dave on a tour we did in Australia. We were on something together, big day out, and I'd seen him occasionally, but we were acquaintances, and he seemed like a really nice guy. But when I was recording this record, I had my drummer, Jerome Dillon, play on about half of it. And then there were some things where I just kept saying kind of a Dave Grohl type drumming. Dave. And I finally caught myself saying it, and I thought, Why don't I just call Dave Grohl and see if he'd do it? We did, and he could. And a few days later we were in studio, and it really was a great experience. Not only is he a really nice guy, but as a musician, he brought an understanding to the material where I could play him a demo. Okay, let's do it. Walks in the room and knows what to add. He really had a real musical kind of feel for what was happening, and I have nothing but good things to say about that, and made a friend in the process. [00:16:56] Speaker B: So I'm going to read some of the stuff and it might repeat some of the information you just heard. I tried to get rid of it, but in an interview with Karang, he said, I wanted someone to just pound the shit out of the drums. I felt like program drums were a bit tired, a little done. I thought of Dave, called him up, and he was here the next day. Before I knew it, I had rough versions of the songs with him drumming over them. Grohl instantly knew what I was looking for. He's not some old buddy of mine. But we clicked instantly, and he was one of the first people to hear the new music, and it was a super kick in the ass. This is why I wanted to read. [00:17:33] Speaker C: Okay, okay, hold on. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Because there's always a critical juncture in the making of a record when you're unsure you haven't built your castle upon a turd. [00:17:44] Speaker A: That's fucking good. That's one of the most RESNA things you could say. I think that's a rejected lyric from Hurt. You can have my castle of turds. [00:18:01] Speaker B: You can have it all my castle built on a turd okay, sorry, but. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Johnny Cash changed it. [00:18:10] Speaker B: I can't believe Johnny Cash in Revolver, he talked about how he could never really have called Dave before, like on previous recordings. He said, yeah, the thing is, I couldn't have done that before. I think to myself, okay, I've got to call him up, and then I'll have to meet him in the studio and play him the tracks. Then I'll have to teach him the parts, and then I'll have to tell him if he's playing something wrong and explain how I need it done. Fuck it, I'll just program that shit myself. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:43] Speaker B: And then he just talked about how it was like a really pleasant experience working with them, and how it kind of even changed the whole sound of the album, the sound of the live drumming juxtaposed with the piano, that kind of runs throughout this album. It's a real kind of stark. [00:19:05] Speaker A: That's why this album sounds so different from everything else. [00:19:09] Speaker B: It can be really jarring sometimes, and sometimes it's just really I mean, the piano that runs through this album, like all the different parts are it's probably my favorite thing about the album, actually, is that's really cool parts. Yeah, I think that there are some really beautiful parts in this album. Kind of glad for how it shaped the sound, I guess, and Reznor. Left those parts in to me. [00:19:30] Speaker A: I'm still undecided on whether the live rock band sound of it all was a plus or a negative. I mean, I don't know. Obviously it sounds really good just on its own merit, but taking it as a whole, I don't know. That'll be something to reflect on at the end. But it is telling that Trent never went back to that. The whole attitude of fuck it, I'll just program it is because I'm a drummer. I've also been a recordist. Like, I still am. Recording and mixing drums and playing them and setting them up is a royal fucking pain in the ass. It's the worst. And I love the instrument and I'm a drummer and I'd rather program drums. Like, at this point in my life, I've Micked enough drum kits and mixed enough just fuck it, dude. Like, if we're going to beat correct this later anyway, why not just I don't know, why not just fake drums all the way unashamedly? [00:20:33] Speaker B: Could fake drums really replicate that sound that Reznor wanted? [00:20:39] Speaker A: No, they're never going to replace a real human. Yeah, so he was just really craving that live sound. But I mean, I like fake drums, so it works for me and it's easier. [00:20:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:52] Speaker A: But I've done both ways. [00:20:54] Speaker B: So the last thing I have to say about Grol, and I'm sure we'll come back to him several times as we talk about the songs tonight. [00:21:02] Speaker A: He does two out of three tonight, by the way. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Jerome Dillon actually gets to play on one. [00:21:07] Speaker A: Oh, no. Fuck no. I was wrong. Grold does one of these three. Love is not enough is programmed and with teeth is Jerome. But it's not as simple as that, and I have more on that later. [00:21:23] Speaker C: Okay. [00:21:24] Speaker B: I do want to read this little piece from The Hollywood Reporter that was published in, like, 2011, and it's Grohl talking about meeting, Resner and being contacted by him later to record on this album. But it's kind of long and it's kind of the same story he tells in his book, but in the book he kind of goes off on different tangents. So this is more put together than it was in his book. So he said. I think I met Trent for the first time in the summer of 1992. Nirvana wasn't working, so I spent the summer at my good friend's house in the San Fernando Valley, sleeping on his floor and going surfing every day. His house had no air conditioning, so every day the Sweltering Valley heat would wake us up and force us out to the beach. My good friend Brian made it his mission to find a different swimming pool every day for us to crash. Apartment complexes, people's backyards. It didn't matter if you had a pool and Brian kind of knew you. We were in your pool all day. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Those types of guys. [00:22:29] Speaker B: One day, Brian called and said, guess where we're swimming today? The fucking house where Sharon Tate was murdered by the Manson family. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Wait, that house had a pool? [00:22:38] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:38] Speaker A: I guess I shouldn't be shocked. [00:22:40] Speaker B: It had a little pool. It's not like it was like some huge Olympic sized pool. We all freaked out, didn't ask too many questions, grabbed our towels and split. Once we arrived, I noticed some studio gear in the living room. That same living room that you've seen photos of a thousand times. I recognized it immediately. I couldn't believe I was actually standing there. And then someone told me it was Nine inch nails. They were making their new record in this house, in that room, and it was a masterpiece. Years later, I was at home when I got a call from my manager, John Silva. He said your budy Trent Reznor is looking for you. Can I give him your email? Sure. I said I hadn't seen or talked to Trent in years. To be honest, we were never really that close. Just casual acquaintances. Maybe do a festival together every now and then. Of course, I had enormous respect for him as an artist and producer. I just didn't know him as a person. I checked my email a few hours later and found a message from Trent. He was in the process of making a new Nine Inch Nails record and had been recording live drums. He asked if I would be interested in playing on the album, and the hair on my neck immediately stood up. By the way, as I was flipping through the book, I noticed that this happens a lot to Dave Grohl. The hair on his neck is constantly standing up, or he's constantly getting chills up and down his spine. [00:23:52] Speaker C: What? [00:23:53] Speaker A: Who is he? R l. Stein. With these literary devices? [00:23:58] Speaker B: I actually got the chills. See, just from reading the sentence. I ran down the hall and said to my wife, guess what? I think I'm going to play drums on a Nine Inch Nails record. I was so blown away. [00:24:08] Speaker A: I mean, who wouldn't get the chills if you got an email that was like, jessica, will you play Kazoo on the next nine inch? [00:24:16] Speaker B: Kazoo? How dare you? [00:24:17] Speaker A: Okay, clarinet. I don't know. [00:24:19] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Clarinet, will you sing on the next. [00:24:22] Speaker B: Oh, no one would ever ask me to sing on a record. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Well, I'd get chills even if it was Kazoo. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Maybe Xylophone. That'd be cool. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Anyway, Trent likes to play all his own Xylophone parts, so I doubt you'd be asked. [00:24:37] Speaker B: I immediately called Trent. We chatted for a few minutes. He explained what he was up to and of course I accepted his invitation. He asked when I could start. I said tonight. Grohl is super excited. We booked my favorite studio in the Valley Sound City for a few days, then moved over to another studio Grandmaster to finish out the session. Originally he only wanted me to play on maybe five or six songs. We knocked out three or four the first day. Everyone was really excited, and at one point he came to me and said, hey, I don't want you to feel like I'm taking advantage, but I have a few more songs that might sound good with your drums. I think we ended up recording ten or twelve tracks. But the funny thing was he would say, okay, check this out. It's a rough idea, I'm not so sure about it, but take a listen and it would be the most incredible piece of music I'd ever heard. Fucking mind blowing shit. His standards are so much higher than anyone else's. He does not settle for or accept anything that isn't amazing. To me, working with him in the studio was such a great experience because his understanding and knowledge of recording music is so deep. He can do everyone else's job better than they can. So you have to be good, and that pushes you to be great. Rhythmically, he works in very sophisticated patterns without confusing the song. That's an art. Most drummers can't even do that. His sense of arrangement and composition ranges from beautiful linear structure to abstract, and the effect is always the same. He makes incredibly moving music. I think it's safe to say that he is my generation's most talented musician, producer songwriter. When he won the Academy Award, I was not only happy for him, but I was also happy that someone from my musical generation was being recognized not just as a rock musician, but as a brilliant composer, as an artist. It was well deserved and that is. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Nice role that it would be impossible to give higher praise than that. [00:26:25] Speaker B: I think probably. I can't imagine higher praise than being called my generation's most talented musician producer songwriter. [00:26:35] Speaker A: That's pretty much the superlative. [00:26:39] Speaker B: Okay, do we want to go ahead and start talking about today's tracks? [00:26:44] Speaker A: Yeah, the first one is one that doesn't have live drummer on it. It kind of sounds like some of it is live drum hits sequenced. Possibly. Maybe one of the two guys could have done some of those or who knows? I'm not sure. I can't find anything that lists any kind of live drummer for the credits of Love Is Not Enough. [00:27:11] Speaker B: So according to Ni and Wiki, this song was originally called The Clamp. I guess. According to us. Copyright Office. [00:27:19] Speaker A: That's so weird. [00:27:20] Speaker B: I didn't know how to look that up. So cool. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Pop the clamp down. That's the clash. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Yeah, just the clamp. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Whatever that means. Love is Not Enough is like the chorus, the clamp he doesn't say the clamp anywhere in it. Maybe it was just to throw people off. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Maybe. So some people say that the title Love Is Not Enough comes from an episode of Twin Peaks. That would be episode 27, the Path to the Black Lodge. [00:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah, this was and then I went digging and found it. This was very interesting and eerie. [00:27:59] Speaker B: Okay, I want to hear it because I haven't heard it. I made you look for it because I was like, I don't have time. You'd find this clip. [00:28:04] Speaker A: It would have been cool to put this clip in the song, I think, but I forgot to load it up, so give me a moment. [00:28:11] Speaker B: Okay, well, while Blake is loading that up, this was also the first song written for with teeth. We talked on a bonus EP last week about Bleed Through, and there were several songs, I believe, that were written for that concept. But I think that this was actually definitely written after Bleed Through was over. But according to Reznor on Ni n Access, this was the first song written for with. [00:28:43] Speaker A: So it's kind of simple. I mean, I think it's great, but I could see how you could bang this one out quickly, almost. Okay. I found the clip. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Okay. [00:28:55] Speaker A: I have to set it up, though, and I don't think I've ever seen this episode. I have watched some of Twin Peaks. I just didn't finish it. [00:29:05] Speaker B: Was this the second season? [00:29:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's season two. We watched some of season two, but we didn't get to the end. We didn't make it all the way to the end. [00:29:14] Speaker B: Season two is rough, guys. [00:29:16] Speaker A: It just goes weird places. And I was like, what the hell? Anyway, Wyndham Earle, the, I guess, evil FBI agent who comes in later is interrogating Garland Briggs, who is the military dad of the one kid, and he's always really serious. He's interrogating him. He has him, like, held hostage. I think. I think he's given him a truth serum, but I'm not certain. So, yeah, that's the setup. And here's the clip. [00:29:51] Speaker C: Your name, please? [00:29:53] Speaker E: Garland Briggs. [00:29:55] Speaker C: Garland, what do you fear most in the world? The possibility that love is not enough. [00:30:05] Speaker A: And then you hear the song drops. Be a cool little intro. So yeah, that's it. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Yeah. That is cool. That is kind of creepy, too. [00:30:17] Speaker A: Yeah. The atmospheric. The Angelo bottlementi. Drone. [00:30:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Also, I believe Karang asked if this song is about Courtney Love. [00:30:28] Speaker A: What? Oh, my God. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Because, Jesus, the title right. [00:30:31] Speaker A: Stupid. [00:30:32] Speaker B: It is really dumb. And Resner said, I would never. [00:30:36] Speaker A: I would never. [00:30:38] Speaker B: She doesn't bother me enough to make me write a song that has anything to do with that bad word. I think he picks that up from hanging up out with all his British. Friends. That's what I think. You've got mulder. [00:30:50] Speaker A: You've got Atticus. Ross is probably constantly saying it. [00:30:53] Speaker B: Probably. [00:30:54] Speaker A: No, I bet Mulder is more likely to say it. [00:30:56] Speaker B: I bet Mulder's got a real potty mouth. [00:30:58] Speaker A: But he did do a song sort of about her already. Kind of sorta with Starfuckers. Well, amongst a crowd of other people. But she was mocked in the video. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Anyway in a way I didn't really care for, but anyway, yeah, none of us did. So do you want to go ahead and play the song? [00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's listen to love is not enough Love this beat. Do you? [00:31:36] Speaker B: What if I was like, no, I hate it. [00:31:38] Speaker A: Those big Toms dirty bass guitar once. [00:31:49] Speaker C: Again, the paler we get. I can't remember what it is we try to forget. [00:32:01] Speaker A: All these songs. [00:32:04] Speaker C: Feel. [00:32:05] Speaker A: Like these three songs have the least synthesizer of any group. There's a little bit in this song. [00:32:14] Speaker C: Those little bleeps for you to go and take fast. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Some of the dirtiest guitars on the album. [00:32:22] Speaker B: I feel like Every Day is exactly the same hat it does. [00:32:25] Speaker A: It has a big fat bass scent. [00:32:27] Speaker C: Synthesizer back at the start. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Love that guitar tone. [00:32:39] Speaker C: Now you got ended. [00:32:41] Speaker A: But as far as that one single note stuff that he talked about early on, like no chords. I want single notes that kind of tracks my ear. That's what this guitar part sounds like. I'm not really hearing chords in this song. Just distorted single notes. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Someone asked him later on in I in Access if he had stuck with that. And he was like, don't take everything I say. [00:33:12] Speaker A: That is kind of a good point. Like, don't hold me to every little stupid rule. [00:33:18] Speaker C: We never really had a chance we never really make it I. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Think these are some of the better lyrics of the album. [00:33:27] Speaker C: Maybe on this song I believed I could get better with you hey, the. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Closer with Big Hay. He likes to do that a lot. Starting from this period. [00:33:42] Speaker C: Maybe. [00:33:45] Speaker A: We can hear some more tambourine in the course on this one. This album is almost as tambourine heavy. [00:33:52] Speaker C: As it is piano heavy cover ourselves in life, but underneath went out to Top. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Is Not Enough and this song is I've talked about it being a little simple chorus, verse, chorus, extended outro. Kind of like collector was. I think that's like a WA guitar. That tone is insane. I'm not totally sure what that is. She's lip syncing the ooze very little. The only synth I heard on this one was the kind of the ping, ping, pingy little thing there. I have a clip of it later. [00:35:00] Speaker C: So. [00:35:08] Speaker A: That'S it. Three minutes, 40 seconds. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Additional lyrics for this song just left for dead and all used up. That's it. [00:35:18] Speaker A: Keeps it snappy. [00:35:20] Speaker B: The whole song is snappy. Even the unused lyrics. [00:35:23] Speaker A: I could hear kind of how those lyrics make sense in the song. If you were to add them. Where the other ones? I'm kind of like the previous ones we talked about. [00:35:34] Speaker B: Is it time for some clips? [00:35:35] Speaker A: Let's play some clips. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Let's do it. [00:35:37] Speaker A: That drum loop, it's not like the Grol or Dylan drumming. Very sequenced and perfectly on time, but there's some organicness to it sample wise. Just the big Tomsy here. [00:36:07] Speaker B: I do like the toms. Yeah, a lot. [00:36:10] Speaker A: That low with thud there. Wait for it. Do you want to hear some vocals? [00:36:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:22] Speaker A: I feel like I have long extended vocal clips for everything on this album, so you're going to have to bear with me. [00:36:30] Speaker C: The more that we take, the paler we get I can't remember what it is. [00:36:41] Speaker A: They're a bit distorted on the trying. [00:36:42] Speaker C: To forget the tile on the floor so cold it can sting in your eyes is a place worth remembering for you to go and take this and smash it apart I've gone all this fucking way to wind up back at back at the start. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Good anger there at the end. Yeah. In that channel there, some of the noises creep through. That's why you heard the jump scare. But I was saying I like the rhyme scheme of this song better. It's not just the AAA, it's an ABAB until it gets to the chorus. Then it's like AABB. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it's AABB. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Speaking of the chorus, the tambourine and some noise are in the channel in this one. [00:37:53] Speaker C: Hey. The closer we Think we are well, it only got out so far now. You got anything left to show? No. I didn't think so. Hey, the sooner we realize we cover ourselves with lies but underneath we're not. [00:38:18] Speaker A: So tough love is not enough he really keeps going back to that. Dry vocals on the verse, adding reverb on the chorus just to make it bigger. But the formula works. Could you hear a sort of high pitched howling at the end there? [00:38:41] Speaker B: Can you play it again? Just the well, I have oh, do you have it isolated? [00:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:46] Speaker A: Took me a while to kind of hear that that was even in there. It's like the wind howling or something. Spooky. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Oh. [00:39:10] Speaker A: It all that tambourine. I think there might be a combination of, like, sequenced tambourine and real tambourine going on in separate channels. And then the last vocals you hear. [00:39:27] Speaker C: Who. [00:39:35] Speaker A: Ah, the breaths. So he sounds so vulnerable. Yeah. I like that. This is the, I think, the only synthesizer I could find. And some more toms. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Oh, those little pinies? [00:39:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, not even sure what the source of that is, honestly. Could be anything. Love that noise. Going left to right, too, and God knows what that is. Some more tambo and guitar. [00:40:18] Speaker C: Oil and. [00:40:33] Speaker A: The hal comes in halfway through. I already played that howl part, but I figured people would want to hear as much of that guitar line as they could get because it's really cool. There's, like, delay on the vocals in verse two. [00:41:01] Speaker C: It never really had a chance we never really make it I never think I believe I believed I could get better with you. [00:41:20] Speaker A: And then the last thing I have let's see. Dark tambourine and Trent Hay. That's what I typed. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Dark Tambourine. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah. There's, like, a darker version of the tambourine and Trent going, hey. Oh. It has all these weird noises in it, shrieking. It's that's from toward the end, like, right before the high pitched ooze. Okay. Yeah. That's all I have for love is. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Not enough I don't have much more to add about it. It's probably one of the stronger tracks on this album, I think. It's not, like, my favorite. [00:42:24] Speaker A: I agree. [00:42:25] Speaker B: But I like it. I probably like it more than it's definitely one of the better tracks on the first half of the album. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:42:34] Speaker B: So Live it was performed at half of the shows on the With Teeth tour. I wrote that it was the first song played on tour debut show on March 25, 2005. Interesting. [00:42:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's been used as an opener. [00:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And it was played on Early Performance 2007 tour a couple of times on the Lights in the sky tour and did not return again until 2022. [00:42:59] Speaker A: Whoa. I really wish we would have seen it at our shows, but we didn't. But that would have slapped Live. [00:43:08] Speaker B: It would have been good, but that's all I have for Love is Not Enough. Wow. I feel like we're moving right along. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Well, good. We're making good time. [00:43:19] Speaker B: All right, next is Every Day is exactly the same, right? [00:43:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:23] Speaker B: I didn't include it in my outline because it's going to be its own halo, so I didn't put any of my research in here or anything, but Blake wanted to go ahead and play it. [00:43:33] Speaker A: Yeah. We've done this on past episodes. Love that little piano opener. We're going to listen through and give our initial responses. [00:43:48] Speaker B: So when I was reading reviews of this album, one of the things I do when I first start researching for an album or an era is I read album reviews, and one of the reviewers talked about I think it was this and the piano opening piano part was very similar to the refrain in Closer. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:10] Speaker B: And they're talking about just how uninspired this album was and Trent's recycling ideas and something like that. To that effect. [00:44:19] Speaker A: I kind of took it as maybe an on purpose nod to it. And even, like, the tone of the piano sounds the same as the end piano. [00:44:33] Speaker B: I see it more as a nod, too. I definitely don't see it as, like, being lazy and uninspired. I don't think that Reznor's phoned in stuff on his albums. Like, even if I don't necessarily love this album, I don't think it's, like, phoned in or no, it's not. [00:44:51] Speaker A: It's just very different overall, I think I really like this song not like my favorite song ever, but it's pretty effective. I love that bass synthesizer. You were saying that you love it too, right? [00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And this was a song, I think, that really had more emotional resonance for people during the pandemic. Maybe we weren't experiencing what resonance was experiencing when he wrote this song. [00:45:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:24] Speaker B: But we definitely got a degree of it during that time. [00:45:28] Speaker A: That's why it was on one of their 2020 T shirts. There was a while where I wasn't at work, where it was just well, we were both at home all the time. Yeah, the routine. Two months kind of just passed and I blinked. [00:45:45] Speaker B: I was still working. [00:45:47] Speaker A: I know, but I blinked and two months had passed and I was like, what the hell did we just do other than drink and play Animal Crossing? [00:45:55] Speaker B: Blake and I decided that two years of our life, we should get them back. So we're just going to tell people that we're two years younger than what we are. So I'm not even 40 yet. I'm 39. [00:46:05] Speaker A: Yep. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Turn 40 this may. [00:46:11] Speaker C: Elbow. Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker A: This one has a very live this is a grol drummed. One also includes some manipulation of the percussive stuff, but big rock band drum sound for the most part. [00:46:33] Speaker B: Paper reviewers also called this like, punishing and repetitive. And I was thinking, Isn't that the point of the fucking song? [00:46:40] Speaker A: I think the chorus is meant to be, like, sounding like it's a broken record. But I do like that he changes up. The third time. He doesn't just say it four times. The third time he says, there's no love here and there's no pain. Which I think is a pretty good. [00:46:56] Speaker C: Line. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Especially talking about where he is supposedly talking about. But it could apply to a lot of things. This is my favorite part here. I think this is really good, this latter half of the bridge. Great vocal melody. [00:47:19] Speaker C: I don't know what else I can do. [00:47:23] Speaker A: The way he screams himself back into it. That's where it was. The whole band stops and the slowdown tambourine shaking live. [00:47:38] Speaker C: There is no love here and there is no weekday music. [00:47:51] Speaker A: I remember this one being on the radio a lot. Not as much as The Hand of Feet, but for a little while there, after they stopped playing. Only, of course, this was the single. After that. I thought it was weird to hear it on the radio. Maybe not a lot. I heard it a few times. [00:48:09] Speaker B: What alt station did we even have at this time? [00:48:11] Speaker A: I can't remember what the station was. Was it Q 102 or something? [00:48:16] Speaker B: I don't know. It changed so many times when I was a kid. It was like Channel Z and then Channel Z kind of became like this adult contemporary alternative station which broke my heart, but clear channel. [00:48:32] Speaker A: Then all the noises start to come in at the end of that track. That lead into the beginning of With Teeth, the title track. So yeah. [00:48:43] Speaker B: Is With Teeth, the track that's going to get us canceled and probably make people hate us. [00:48:50] Speaker A: This one I have thoughts on, and I don't like hot takes. As a general rule. I don't really do hot takes. I think they're kind of. [00:49:03] Speaker B: Hot take. This is the worst track number seven the Nine Inch Nails album has ever had. [00:49:08] Speaker A: Trying to think, is it? Maybe. [00:49:10] Speaker B: I don't know. I'd have to go back and look. [00:49:11] Speaker A: At all the tracks. [00:49:12] Speaker B: Sevens. [00:49:12] Speaker A: There's no way it's better than all the track seven than any of the tracks. [00:49:16] Speaker B: The becoming track seven on downward spiral. Okay. [00:49:18] Speaker A: Sin, just like you imagined. What's seven on the right side? Complication. But I have a take. I don't know that I'd want to call it a hot take. It's more of a long, rambling thing about drums and rhythm and beat and rhythmic displacement. [00:49:42] Speaker B: Go for it. [00:49:42] Speaker A: No, you go with what you want. [00:49:44] Speaker B: No, you mean just do the basics that I usually do. Really? There's not a lot to talk about. I couldn't find a lot about some of these songs. Even the notes from NINTEN on our spreadsheet that we share were just jerome gets to play on a track. So, yes, Jerome is doing the live drums on this song. [00:50:04] Speaker A: I thought it was grol. [00:50:06] Speaker B: You did think it was Grol, but probably because of this clip you're going to play in a minute. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:11] Speaker B: Okay. [00:50:12] Speaker A: Should I play the clip? [00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah, play the clip. [00:50:15] Speaker A: So this kind of gets into the idea of rhythmic displacement, which is the phenomenon when you can't find where the quote correct downbeat is and your mind thinks it's somewhere other than where Trent Reznor thought it was. [00:50:36] Speaker B: Can you explain what a downbeat is just for people who may be downbeat? [00:50:40] Speaker A: Like, let's say we're just in regular four, four time, just 1234. Each of those you can consider each of those a downbeat rather than say, like one and two and three and four and the ands would be an upbeat. [00:50:55] Speaker B: Okay. [00:50:57] Speaker A: And the one is the downbeat that Grohl's going to be talking about. [00:51:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:51:02] Speaker A: And which is very important to find in this song and what I could never find and why I couldn't hear this song correctly until recently. And I might blow some minds with some of the manipulations I've done here. I know some people thought it was including myself, thought it was one way for many years, and Grohl, according to this clip, thought it was that way, too, but it wasn't. Reznor just came up with a really weird off kilter beat where the snare is not where you predict it to be whatsoever. And it almost sounds like the beat is doing everything in its power to make you lose where the one is. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a really disorienting song. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll go on to show you in this Ted Talk I'll go on to show you where the one is via something I made later on. This is where my hot take part comes in, but it's not really a hot take. If you think the one is somewhere else, it's because you've been listening wrong. And I can say that, not in an insulting way, because I listened wrong since 2005, until just recently. Even today, when we were just listening to it on vinyl, when the song started, I was like, oh, here it goes again. I lost the beat. And it took me hearing some of the lyrics. Some of the vocals set me straight, but it took until almost to the first chorus, and then suddenly my mind snapped and I was like, okay, there it is. Now I can hear it right. I was hearing it wrong yet again, even after all this work I've done. And then suddenly it snapped into place, and I was like, oh, wait, this is like one of those Magic Eye. [00:53:10] Speaker B: Posters, which, by the way, I've never been able to really? Never. [00:53:15] Speaker A: So maybe you're one of the people who this would be an interesting test. People who can't see those, maybe they can't find the beat on with teeth. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Honestly, I don't even try. [00:53:26] Speaker A: What I mean is you can look at it and look at it and think you just see all these weird wavy lines and you're like, yes, that's a picture of weird wavy lines. That's all I see. But it takes something happens, I don't even know what, at some point down the line where it comes into view, and you're like, oh, actually, that's what the picture is. That's where the downbeat is. And I think my theory is, and I think there's strong evidence to back this up based on the clip we're going to hear, trent wanted Grol to drum on this one, but because he could never quite find that downbeat correctly, trent was just like, Fuck it, let's move on to the next thing. And then later had Jerome come in, who, for whatever reason, probably because he's good, found it and could get into the groove. So I think this song was originally going to be Groll. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Are you saying that Grohl's not no. [00:54:34] Speaker A: No, not at all. Sure, Grohl's great, but this fucking off kilter beat that he made can trick anyone. [00:54:42] Speaker B: Even Grohl himself said that a lot of drummers can't even come up with beats or rhythmic patterns. [00:54:50] Speaker A: That's what he was talking about, these completely non standard, like, yeah, I would have never thought of that. What the hell even is this beat? It's a pattern I've never heard in my life before, but once it falls into place, it's kind of cool. I think I would have just reworked this song, though. I don't know if it's worth all that work, but god, that's only like, half of what I have to say about this song. But I think we should move on, then maybe I can talk about the other stuff later. [00:55:27] Speaker B: Are you going to play the clip from Girl now? [00:55:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Okay. [00:55:31] Speaker A: You're going to hear snapping a lot. That's not us messing around. Dave is snapping in the video to like he's snapping along with the beat. It's just something he does. This was done only a couple years ago, and it's him and a couple other Foo Fighters in the studio just reminiscing on things. And he briefly reminisces on With Teeth sessions. It's him, Pat Smear and shit. The other guy, Foo Fighters heads will be mad at me, but I'm sorry, I only know the color and the shape. A great fucking album. [00:56:08] Speaker B: And still their best selling. [00:56:10] Speaker A: Rami Jaffe or Rami. Sorry, I'm dumb. He's the third guy. [00:56:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:56:16] Speaker A: You'll hear all three of them in this clip. [00:56:18] Speaker E: It's a really weird thing when you can only hear the one in the place that you can hear it. Because that happened to me once when I was playing drums, actually, on a Nine Inch Nails record where Trent was like, okay, here's the song. And he sent me this demo, and I was doing what the drums on the demo did. So I would record a drum track, and Trent would say, okay, on this one, make sure you hit both crashes on the one. I'm like, okay, cool. I'm like. [00:56:55] Speaker A: What'S? That the bass line for it's with teeth? [00:56:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:59] Speaker A: Sorry, it's not a trick question. [00:57:01] Speaker B: I was like, Is it with teeth? Like, what are you trying to trick me into saying? [00:57:04] Speaker A: Girl's not credited on with teeth. Dylan is. So why is Girl talking about playing it? Because he played it first. They didn't go with his takes. Anyway, continuing. [00:57:17] Speaker E: Cool. That was really good, but make sure you get the scratches on the one. I'm like, cool. And then afterwards, he said, Come in. So I come into the control room and he goes, Tell me where you think the one is. And he hits play. And I was like, dad, he had engineered Dude Atticus, or his other guy that he works with, they looked at. [00:57:43] Speaker A: Each other, they're like, how cute. Exactly. [00:57:48] Speaker E: That's not the one. I'm like it's not. And he started showing me where it was, and I couldn't get it. I was like, let's not use numbers. Just tell me where you want the fucking crash. [00:58:02] Speaker B: That would be me. [00:58:03] Speaker E: Better just to hear it. Of course it's music. It's not a math problem. [00:58:07] Speaker A: Everybody figures it out their own way. Rami's very wise. I think. Maybe that is a good way to sum it up. Maybe that's why I have some trouble with this track, because I don't want it to be a math problem for my brain. But my brain's trying to treat it like a math problem. When I can't find the beat, I. [00:58:24] Speaker B: Just want to listen to music, man. I don't want to do no math. [00:58:27] Speaker A: Exactly. That's why we hate math rock. [00:58:30] Speaker B: Exactly. This house. We do not listen to math rock. [00:58:32] Speaker A: I like some of it. [00:58:33] Speaker B: I was just kidding. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Dillinger skate plan. But as Grohl said, I couldn't get it. And I think that's why they moved on and went with reliable old Jerome. [00:58:48] Speaker B: I wonder how much they had to work with Jerome to get him to get it right. [00:58:51] Speaker A: Maybe a little bit. Who knows? [00:58:53] Speaker B: Or if he got it right, have. [00:58:54] Speaker A: His brain could have just seen that magic eye right away, like some people know. Couldn't even be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, though. That was a little bit of a snub, right? [00:59:05] Speaker B: He put a lot I feel like there were I know. It's interesting things did not end. [00:59:10] Speaker A: I know, but I feel like he put enough work into the band that he deserves it. [00:59:16] Speaker B: Klauser wasn't either. Klauser was at I don't think he was inducted in the hall of Fame, though. But he was at the reunion. [00:59:24] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:59:25] Speaker B: It was was that's correct? [00:59:29] Speaker A: Because I remember the original Skype thing, the zoom thing. Klauser wasn't in that. [00:59:36] Speaker B: No, it was Brenna. [00:59:37] Speaker A: Yeah, but Jerome was in neither, so something's not good there. He's apparently salty about it. What? I've heard from sources. [00:59:50] Speaker B: Is he still salty after all these years? Probably. [00:59:53] Speaker A: Well, if he was snubbed. Yeah. I'm just saying he earned it. That's all I'm saying. [00:59:59] Speaker B: Just for getting the damn beat. [01:00:01] Speaker A: Just for getting that downbeat. He earned Rock and Roll Hall of Fame status. So should we play it and see if you can hear the downbeat? [01:00:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not so it's fine. [01:00:11] Speaker A: You don't think you're going to hear it? [01:00:13] Speaker B: Nope. [01:00:13] Speaker A: Or did you even care where it was in the first place? [01:00:15] Speaker B: I kind of don't care. [01:00:17] Speaker A: Okay. See, that's a different kind of listener. There are different kinds of listeners, and we all have different ears. I'm the kind of person who, if I don't find that downbeat, I lose my mind and I can't enjoy myself. And that's why I never enjoyed this song until recently when I started messing with it, cutting it up, taking out isolating things and fixing the beat. There's a Tribe Called Quest song, Bugging Out that people seem to love, I believe, from low in theory that I could never like, because it has one of those hard to find downbeats. My brain won't do it. That's what I'm saying. That's the kind of listener I am. [01:01:04] Speaker B: I just feel out of sync, out of place. Yeah, but I don't go searching for. [01:01:10] Speaker A: I don't like that feeling. I strongly dislike it. Do you feel out of sync, out of place when you listen to with teeth? Okay, so you hear something. Let's just play that MF. Let's see if we can both locate it right away. And I've been practicing a lot lately. [01:01:27] Speaker B: Okay. I'm not going to try. [01:01:30] Speaker A: I think you should try as an experiment for me. [01:01:32] Speaker B: No, because I'm not good at that kind of thing. [01:01:35] Speaker A: Okay. You won't hear it on the podcast. I'll try to gesture, maybe. [01:01:40] Speaker B: Okay. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Sorry for all that, but I hope you liked my Ted Talk anyway. [01:01:50] Speaker C: Sugar. [01:01:55] Speaker A: I've already lost it's. [01:02:05] Speaker C: It? Yeah, I've lost it's. [01:02:20] Speaker A: This is another one that is drum, bass, guitar, organic and performed a few electronic things mixed in. I'll point them out later. [01:02:34] Speaker C: She gets inside. [01:02:38] Speaker A: The vocals. Help me find it. I locked in. I just saw the magic eye. I just locked in. [01:02:48] Speaker C: Okay. [01:02:54] Speaker A: It's a lot more enjoyable when you lock in. [01:03:00] Speaker C: Deeper than you. [01:03:07] Speaker A: Comes that chorus. [01:03:08] Speaker C: Jeff, where was the taping? [01:03:12] Speaker A: She's cringing. She's wincing. [01:03:14] Speaker C: Where was the taping? [01:03:16] Speaker A: She's laughing now. [01:03:18] Speaker C: Where was the. [01:03:31] Speaker A: She'S waving. There's like a weird, noisy synthy kind of thing. There the world. I think it's just the beginning of the song that so throws me off so much. That's kind of repetitive and hypnotic. It's really just this beat other than the bridge, which is like an entirely different world. [01:03:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:01] Speaker C: The place where yell bell rather the team die. Where the team die. Where will the team die? [01:04:32] Speaker A: I do like this funky part. Kind of a tambourine and a funky guitar come in. I like that. [01:04:41] Speaker B: I like the bridge. [01:04:42] Speaker A: The bridge is the best part. Got to turn it way up here. Volume change is so extreme. [01:05:01] Speaker B: It's almost like we're in a totally different song. [01:05:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it is like a different song was inserted here. [01:05:11] Speaker B: Now, talk about sounding vulnerable. [01:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I got some good clips for that later. What do you think about the repetition? It is just the one line said about 40 times. [01:05:27] Speaker B: Well, I think it's just maybe reinforcing his I'm trying to think about it. [01:05:39] Speaker A: Definitely. It's about drugs and addiction. [01:05:42] Speaker B: Oh, definitely. But I think it's just kind of reinforcing the fact that he probably could not physically go through that again. Like, he literally almost died when he OD. So if he fell back into that, it's a physical thing, but also mentally. [01:06:08] Speaker A: Jump scare. It's like a noise synth solo here. I think that's what it is. Total freak out. That part will blow your head off. [01:06:31] Speaker B: But, yeah, as far as repetition, I just see it as like an affirmation or something to that mantra that you're. [01:06:38] Speaker A: Repeating to yourself again and again while in recovery. Possibly. [01:06:44] Speaker B: A reminder. [01:06:49] Speaker A: I like these kind of whispered vocals here. This is a long song. This is like five and a half minutes. Is this the longest? [01:06:59] Speaker B: Thought we determined keeps up. [01:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah, we already talked about this, I'm sure. But just to yeah. Besides you in time is almost as long. She will let you go 538. This one is 538. Besides you in times 525 she will in fact the longest because of that bridge. Yeah. I could do a whole song of just the bridge. [01:07:29] Speaker B: One other thing. I'm not going to harp on this too much. This was a song that kind of turned me off of the album as a whole. I just could not get past this song for probably several different reasons. Probably the rhythmic displacement. [01:07:50] Speaker A: That put me. [01:07:51] Speaker B: Off the shadow vowels. Shadow vowels, which were so pronounced. I mean, for some reason, it was like sometimes still can be, depending on my mood. Like nails on a chalkboard. I don't know why. I don't know why. I really don't. [01:08:08] Speaker A: For me, it's not like nails on a chalkboard, but it's not like I'm not like, oh, that's genius. [01:08:13] Speaker B: It's not like my favorite I'm more neutral affectation. No, but what's weird is I can listen to some of the fall tracks and I don't even notice it. But that's because he does it all the time, so that's probably why. [01:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's also not as loudly enunciated as it is here, but also. [01:08:31] Speaker B: Just the if we're going to talk lyrics, I really was kind of disappointed that using a sexy lady yeah, a woman attemptress a seductress as a metaphor for drug addiction and use. I don't know, it just kind of gets old. [01:08:53] Speaker A: To sweet, sweet lady heroin. [01:08:59] Speaker B: My favorite lady. [01:09:02] Speaker A: People used to say that. [01:09:04] Speaker B: Del Rey. Sorry, that came from a meme. [01:09:08] Speaker A: People used to use that kind of no, I know. [01:09:11] Speaker B: Drugs are always feminine because you know why? [01:09:14] Speaker A: Lady H. What? [01:09:16] Speaker B: Women are bad and evil, and we always will be. [01:09:19] Speaker A: But we love tempt you. [01:09:20] Speaker B: We're going to seduce you. [01:09:22] Speaker A: Mary Jane, stop. No, I'm just coming up with examples. [01:09:27] Speaker B: Yes, but I don't know. That was just kind of disappointing, I think. I'm not going to harp on it too much, like I said, but that's just one thing that always stuck out to me about this song and kind of disappointed me about it. But I should be used to it. [01:09:42] Speaker A: Yeah, because we gave Reptile a pass. [01:09:46] Speaker B: Reptile is a little different. I'm not going to compare the two. [01:09:49] Speaker A: It is. It's talking about more about a literal person and less about not about drugs. [01:09:57] Speaker B: But just using a woman as a metaphor for something bad. [01:10:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:02] Speaker B: Something that will ruin your life. Something that I don't know, I just kind of over it wasn't digging on that. [01:10:08] Speaker A: It's an old rock trope. So it's been done. Well, we should probably we'll wait to talk about this one when we talk about sunspots. But the teaser is, I think, without the weird beat. If you had a more straightforward beat, it would just be like another sunspots. And maybe that's why they needed to make it stand out so much. [01:10:35] Speaker B: Didn't you make a mix that was. [01:10:38] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, well, I've made a few different things. [01:10:41] Speaker B: Okay. [01:10:41] Speaker A: I have a mashup of with teeth and sunspots. That's a whole different thing. I'll put that out later and you will probably hear clips of it in bonus episodes if you got the bonus feed. I made a version for us where I fixed the. Beat for those who would, like, help hearing it better. And this helps me as well. [01:11:07] Speaker B: Okay. [01:11:08] Speaker A: And I have a little clip of what the chorus would sound like without the shadow vowels. [01:11:13] Speaker B: Do you want to go through the real clips first, or do you want to go through the stuff that you have created? [01:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll go through the Blake's clips corner first. Okay. So drums only. [01:11:25] Speaker B: Queso. [01:11:26] Speaker A: Damn it. Hear some of those noises in there, too. Cool. Tom work there's like, this little electronic metronome, too. [01:11:52] Speaker B: Is that annoying to play? What? That drum beat. Would that be annoying to play as a drummer? Would you? [01:11:59] Speaker A: I think it would be kind of hard, yeah. If you got really used to it and fell into the groove and could find the downbeat, maybe. It would be fine, I'm sure. [01:12:10] Speaker B: Okay. [01:12:11] Speaker A: But it's not what rock drummers are used to, so yeah, like outside of your comfort zone, for sure. For most drummers. Okay. Some vocals. [01:12:23] Speaker C: She comes along, she gets inside she makes you better than anything you've tried it's in her kiss sexy the Blackest sea and it runs deeper than you dare to dream it could be I. [01:13:01] Speaker A: Think a lot of people consider this song a little sexy. Those lyrics are a little sexy. [01:13:05] Speaker B: Well, he's using especially the singing about a seductress. [01:13:10] Speaker A: It's in her kiss that part whispering it okay. The chorus. Oh, cover your ears, Jess. You're not going to like this. [01:13:22] Speaker C: Wet, wet the teeth hater wet, wet the teeth hater the delay tooth. [01:13:42] Speaker A: Okay, I won't torture you more with it. My favorite guitar part, I really dig this guitar tone here. Sounds like there's jungle animal noises in there's. [01:14:11] Speaker B: Weird noises back there. [01:14:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:13] Speaker B: But whenever we were listening to this earlier, I honed in on that little funky guitar, and I thought it was a banjo, and I feel really dumb. [01:14:23] Speaker A: I actually thought that, too, because it has that tinny tone of a it's just the way that the tone they've dialed in is like a banjo's tone and just the fact that it sounds really yeah. Like, I also thought that actually. What if it is? What if it's an electric banjo? I'm no guitar expert, obviously. For all I fucking know, it could be. I mean, all the weird stringed instruments that were used on the Fragile, nothing is out of the question. [01:15:03] Speaker B: And the fact that it's just, like, kind of plucks makes me think that it's someone who maybe is not experienced. [01:15:08] Speaker A: With or playing it the wrong way, as Trim did with all those instruments on the Fragile. But he seems to be making good sounds with it, whatever it is. Someone will have to fill me in. Noise synth solo reminds me of kind of in the becoming toward the end when just that explosion of noise synth there's a solo part in that one. That's what this reminded me of. Totally, like, bit crushed at the end that was pretty cool. The final vocals. My favorite vocals. [01:16:04] Speaker C: She will not let you go keeps holding on that little metronome let you go so strange keeps holding on this time I'm not coming back she will not let you go she keeps holding on to you this time I'm not coming back she will not let you go. [01:16:43] Speaker A: Okay, this is a really good one. That piano is so fucking quiet. I made it louder. And we're going to hear just the piano. It's cool. Drones in there, too. Kind of sounds like his scoring work. [01:17:15] Speaker B: It's really lovely. Sounds weird to say that when the rest of the song is yeah, I know. [01:17:21] Speaker C: It's not like that's. [01:17:34] Speaker A: I love this weird. I think it's just maybe a super affected guitar. Maybe a guitar run through some kind of synth pedal. It's really hard to say. [01:17:57] Speaker B: This is one of my favorite parts on the whole album in a song that is probably my least favorite song on the album. It is really weird. [01:18:07] Speaker A: Pull out little parts like this that are amazing. Even if you don't like the hole. It's strange. I do love that. Pretty noisy thing at the end, though. Okay. And then just the vocals made louder. [01:18:32] Speaker C: I cannot go through this again I cannot go through this again I cannot go through this again I cannot go through this again I cannot go through this again. [01:19:05] Speaker A: Those drones. Yeah. A very vulnerable performance of very honest. [01:19:12] Speaker B: He always talks about honesty and I feel like that's a very not faked. [01:19:19] Speaker A: Okay. Do you want to hear my version where I fixed the beat and you tell me if it helps you hear it better? [01:19:27] Speaker B: You can, but doesn't mean anything. [01:19:29] Speaker A: I don't have to play the whole to. We'll just listen to the beginning. I'll put the full version of it up somewhere, probably on the nailed YouTube channel, but it'll count you off with four stick clicks that'll let you know she just made a face. It different. [01:20:16] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe better. [01:20:18] Speaker A: I like it. I like it better. Honest to God, I like this better. And the vocal performance performance sounds so much better when you know where the beat is and the chorus even kind of makes more sense. [01:20:34] Speaker C: She gets inside. She makes you better than anything you try. [01:20:46] Speaker A: I'll just get to the first chorus. [01:20:49] Speaker C: The a napkin. Let me see. And if I deeper than you dare be where the cage is where saving. [01:21:18] Speaker A: All I did was add a standard beat where the kick is on one and three, the snare is on two and four. I added that quietly underneath the existing track and there's a little bit of hihat in there. And that's all for my mind. It tells me where everything is. Did it make a big difference to you? [01:21:42] Speaker B: I mean, it did, but I might. [01:21:45] Speaker A: Have blown some minds. And then for funsies, what would the chorus sound like without the uz a lot more boring. It turns or just not a lot. There. [01:22:02] Speaker C: Red weapon. KV don't wear TV. Where TV? Web TV. [01:22:19] Speaker A: So, yeah, two syllables. Not much. There not much of a chorus, maybe. [01:22:25] Speaker B: Definitely a weak chorus. [01:22:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So he had to add some uz in to give it more substance. But there were apparently more lyrics to the chorus, I think probably would have made it better because it would have put the phrase with teeth in context of, like, what the hell does this mean? [01:22:46] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe he didn't want it to be too obvious. Or maybe the song maybe went through many different evolutions. [01:22:52] Speaker A: Maybe. [01:22:53] Speaker B: Who knows? [01:22:53] Speaker A: Possibly. [01:22:54] Speaker B: But yeah. So in the Lyric poster and PDF, by the way, I wrote Lyric. I typed out Lyric Poser. [01:23:02] Speaker A: Lyric Poser. He's such a lyric poser. [01:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah. In the chorus there is she's holding on with teeth? [01:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah. That's a full thought. [01:23:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And she is the greatest lie of all. That also appears in the Lyric poster PDF. So, once again, women bad. [01:23:25] Speaker A: Yeah, woman bad. But it's how the addiction hangs on to you. [01:23:31] Speaker B: Yes. [01:23:31] Speaker A: It hangs on with teeth, apparently. [01:23:33] Speaker B: It gets into you. [01:23:34] Speaker A: It's biting into you. Clawing into you. [01:23:37] Speaker B: Gets its claws in. [01:23:39] Speaker A: And it's the greatest lie of all. And also, it's a lady. [01:23:44] Speaker B: Addiction is a lady. [01:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:47] Speaker B: Hope I didn't upset anyone with my. [01:23:49] Speaker A: Little well, it shouldn't. [01:23:51] Speaker B: I think it's okay to be critical of people that you like. You can still like something and be critical of it. [01:23:58] Speaker A: That's totally he's my favorite musician composer, period. But I have plenty of little nitpicks on this album, obviously. [01:24:08] Speaker B: Yeah. In fact, it's good to be critical of the things you consume. [01:24:13] Speaker A: If you're just like, everything good, nothing can be bad. Then you're just the part of the fan base that people look at online and are like, oh, those people are nuts. And I mean that for every musical artist, not just NIN. [01:24:30] Speaker B: You're taking the human element out of the creation. If you think everything is perfect, your. [01:24:40] Speaker A: Favorite artists make mistakes. Your favorite artists sometimes miss. [01:24:43] Speaker B: They're humans. We're human. We all make mistakes. [01:24:47] Speaker A: We like to say he don't miss, but in a few little places he has missed. [01:24:54] Speaker B: Anyway, hope I didn't piss anyone off. Sorry. But also not sorry. Those are just my thoughts. [01:25:00] Speaker A: I know. It's just opinions. [01:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:02] Speaker A: And we know a lot of people love this. This one, I did say this is the era where we're losing half of our listeners. We're losing subscribers. Whenever I said, you're listening wrong, everyone turned thousand people just turned it off. [01:25:17] Speaker B: They just closed their podcast app. You dude. [01:25:20] Speaker A: But they didn't stick around to hear the part where I said I was listening wrong for so long and I still kind of am. [01:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:28] Speaker A: I can't believe we talked so much about the song with teeth. I never thought I'd do that in my life, but I think it's good. [01:25:34] Speaker B: That we did the title track. It's a big song. It's a weird song. [01:25:38] Speaker A: We had to get it all out there. [01:25:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:40] Speaker A: We don't have another halo to talk about it. [01:25:42] Speaker B: And it's also kind of a thing, I think, that splits fans. I don't think there's like a middle ground where people are just like, yeah, I'm fine with it. I think people either love this track or hate it. I don't want to say I hate it because there's like, the bridge. I really love that bridge. [01:26:01] Speaker A: I don't hate it. [01:26:01] Speaker B: So pretty. So maybe I'm wrong on that. I'm actually kind of there's one element I like in this song and it's that bridge. [01:26:08] Speaker A: I don't hate it, but I'm more ambivalent. No, I have mixed feelings on it, definitely. But overall, like I said before, if it were me, I think I would have reworked this song a little bit, made the rhythm more clear. Because once the off kilterness is cool and there's a cool groove to it once you're able to get it. But if no one can get it, I don't know. But clearly a lot of people are getting it because they're liking it or. [01:26:41] Speaker B: They'Re just not paying attention. [01:26:42] Speaker A: I'm just saying, for me, I would have reworked it. But also there's another song on this album that is kind of very similar. [01:26:51] Speaker B: To it, which I like way more. [01:26:53] Speaker A: And it even talks about the things that she does. She comes inside it's the same cadence as she turns me on she makes it real we'll get to that. She makes you hard is that in sunspots? [01:27:15] Speaker B: No, it's in with teeth. But I was thinking of the perfect right. [01:27:19] Speaker A: She makes me hard when I'm all. [01:27:21] Speaker B: Soft inside she makes you hard she. [01:27:23] Speaker A: Makes me hard anyway I see the truth when I'm all stupid eyed I'm. [01:27:30] Speaker C: Not coming back she will not let you go I'm not coming back she. [01:27:42] Speaker B: Will so that is it. We got through with I made it through. I do want to say I don't dislike this song as much as I used to when I first heard it in 2005. It's definitely been a slow, slow grower. [01:28:01] Speaker A: Grower, not a shower. [01:28:03] Speaker B: But it's still probably my least favorite track on this album. [01:28:07] Speaker A: Trying to think, is it my least favorite? God, it might be. [01:28:12] Speaker B: You know what? We've never done, like a ranking episode. [01:28:16] Speaker A: I'm not a big ranker. I'm not a big ranker. [01:28:18] Speaker B: I know you're not. I think it might be fun, though. [01:28:20] Speaker A: I think ranking is overdone. But some people are nuts for the ranking. They love it. I find it hard to rank a lot of things. [01:28:27] Speaker B: Sometimes I do, because something has to be last. And sometimes it's really hard when you have a really good album to put something at the bottom. But for sure, this is at the bottom of my With Teeth ranking, I think. [01:28:42] Speaker A: Well, we need to get to the end of it before I decide what's at the bottom, what's at the top, because I need to revisit everything thoroughly. [01:28:50] Speaker B: Yeah, well, all I want to say is, from here on out, you're a latter half, Stan. I am. [01:28:55] Speaker A: And we've heard from a lot of these. Yes, and I think I might be, too, even though there are moments in the first half that I'm really into. Like the whole song, Love Is Not Enough, that I love the jam section at the end of all the love in the World, some of the best Nine Inch Nails material ever to me, but just that section. [01:29:17] Speaker B: All right, let's wrap this up. [01:29:18] Speaker A: Yes. [01:29:20] Speaker B: Do we have any new patrons? [01:29:22] Speaker A: Oh, yes, we do. I think just two that I haven't read. [01:29:26] Speaker B: Okay. [01:29:27] Speaker A: Rob. Welcome, Rob. [01:29:30] Speaker B: Hi, Rob. [01:29:31] Speaker A: And our friend Jessica. [01:29:34] Speaker B: Hi, Jessica. [01:29:35] Speaker A: The other Jessica. [01:29:37] Speaker B: Well, number three. [01:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess that's an inside joke. Not that you're number three in quality or something. [01:29:44] Speaker B: Well, just number two and just number three are number one in my heart. [01:29:47] Speaker A: They're all tied. They're all number one. There's a lot of Jessica's. That's the thing. [01:29:51] Speaker B: We're all eighty s. Ninety s babies. [01:29:54] Speaker A: That and jennifer. Very popular names. [01:29:57] Speaker B: My mom sometimes would call me Jennifer when she got mad at me, and I'm like, that's not for real. [01:30:02] Speaker A: She's the one who named you. She shouldn't get it wrong. [01:30:05] Speaker B: I mean, I can understand calling me Monica, but calling Jennifer? [01:30:09] Speaker A: Moms call their kids by their siblings names. [01:30:12] Speaker B: Sometimes I call my littlest niece Elliot. [01:30:15] Speaker A: Right. Well, yeah, that's understandable. [01:30:17] Speaker B: Yeah, because I'm old and she's like or sometimes I refer to one of their dogs as a dog that died. [01:30:23] Speaker A: Oh, no, you don't want to be. [01:30:25] Speaker B: So now I just don't like that one. [01:30:30] Speaker A: Don't refer to them. [01:30:32] Speaker B: Anyway, thank you to our new patrons. If you're interested in being a patron, Blake, what can you go? Where can you go? What can you do? [01:30:42] Speaker A: Nailedpod.com has all of our stuff, including the link to our patreon, where you can get the Nailed even Deeper feed, twice as many episodes. We go beyond the Halos, and you can get those for as low as $5 a month. You get our Private Listener Discord, which is very fun to be in. You get our close friends on Instagram. You get Merch discounts on all merch if you're a patron and there are different tiers with different benefits, too. [01:31:18] Speaker B: And if we get to 200 patrons, I will get my Nine Inch Nails tattoo. [01:31:24] Speaker A: Right. We got to get to 200 for that, folks. [01:31:27] Speaker B: I already have it planned out. I'm pretty sure I know what I want and where it's going to go, and it's going to be so cool. [01:31:32] Speaker A: And it's on her butt and it's. [01:31:34] Speaker B: Not on my butt. That's be a place where I can show people. [01:31:39] Speaker A: And it says with teeth. And it's got a big pair of teeth. No, don't tell biting the butt. [01:31:48] Speaker B: If you want to support us, you don't have to support us. [01:31:51] Speaker A: If you can't support financially, you can do free stuff. [01:31:54] Speaker B: You can go and you can rate and review us on Apple podcasts. Hold on, I want to check something. [01:32:00] Speaker A: Okay. You can give us a five star rating on Spotify as well. They have that. Thanks to those that already left. Really nice reviews. Some of the nicest things ever said about us. Okay. Anything else, Jess? [01:32:16] Speaker B: Next bonus episode. I think we decided to do the music videos. [01:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah, two videos. Hand that feeds and only and then what? [01:32:25] Speaker B: Tiny little bit we know about. [01:32:26] Speaker A: We might. Yeah. [01:32:27] Speaker B: Scrapped. [01:32:29] Speaker A: Every day is exactly the same. We'll talk about the never seen video. [01:32:33] Speaker B: That's right. So what are we doing? Next time on the Main Feed with Teeth part three. [01:32:41] Speaker A: Next episode only getting smaller. Sunspots and Home if you have the vinyl version. [01:32:50] Speaker B: That's right. [01:32:51] Speaker A: An important song to consider when considering the songs of this era. [01:32:58] Speaker B: Okay? That's all I've got. [01:32:59] Speaker A: I think that's a good place to say goodnight then. [01:33:04] Speaker B: Good night. [01:33:05] Speaker A: Good night, everyone. Didn't that make you feel better, Raya?